In Today's Lesson...

[St Marc]

... we learn not to schmooze a schmoozer.

The stars of today's lesson:

Promoter Dude: Dude, known to my buddy, who arranged a photo shoot yesterday for said buddy to advertise his new line of industrial jewelry (provided location and model, neither of which cost him anything.)

Me: Your humble correspondant. The jewelry client has been a friend of mine for eleven years and I also have a small investment in his business. He didn't pay for the pics.

My cell phone: Best supporting actor.

MCP: *ring, ring*
Me: "StMarc*."
PD: Hey, Marc! So, we had a good time yesterday and I was hoping you could take some pictures of $BAND for their press kit.
Me: Love to! What do you need?
PD: Well, you could either take pictures at a concert or do a group shot in their practice studio.
Me: I think I'd rather do a group shot if you want it for the press kit first, then do a performance shoot next time they're in a good venue. What rights did you want?
PD: I was thinking you'd just give me the film.
Me: I can do that, but that's a buyout and it won't be cheap.
Him: Well, I was thinking we could spend a couple hundred dollars and have you take the pictures.
Me: A couple hundred dollars will buy you a shoot and a few good edits for promotional purposes, no problem.
Him: Well, we wanted to own the pictures.
Me: I don't know why you'd want the copyrights, but we can make that happen. A flat buyout is $1000 per image.**
Him: *I can hear him mentally choking.* But, if they get big, you could always sell the pics on eBay or something, and use them yourself.
Me: No, if you buy them out, I have no more rights. I wouldn't even be able to put them on my website and say I took them. That's why I said I don't know that you need a full buyout.
PD: *realizes that he is in way over his head* Let me talk to the band and the promotion company and find out what they want to do.

Now, I'm sure he will be able to find somebody who will come in, take pictures, and hand him a roll of film for a couple hundred bucks. Or less. And that somebody might even be better than me. Quite possible, in fact. I know people who do band photography for *fun* who are as good as I am or better.

But just because there are a lot of talented but ignorant (or, if you prefer, excessively charitable) people in the world doesn't mean I am going to forget that I am an IP attorney and I know what I am selling. He needs a lesson in use rights and, if he lets me, I'll give him one. He seems like a reasonable fellow and in the long run, listening to me is worth quite a lot of money. But if he's not interested and just thinks "$1000/image, what a ripoff," then I am not going to waste my time with him.

By the way, here's a sample pic from the shoot. Not done editing it yet, but I like it.



M

*I answer my cell phone with my name. Pretentious, I know.
**I've never had anybody ask to buy out an image before. I made that number up on the spot. I thought it was a little low for a flat buyout, myself.

[Lost Coast Photo]

Good response... now if only we could get everyone to do that.

I've got a shoebox full of negatives of bands from my punk 'zine days, it was part of my job then. Most of those bands broke up a year later and are even more obscure now than they were then. A few made it big. And I still sell those images, 25 years later. I shudder to think what I might have accepted for a buyout in those days, as a very young photographer. Glad it was never offered. In 1981, the bands were usually even more broke than I was.

[Rik Bowman]

Him: Well, we wanted to own the pictures.
Me: I don't know why you'd want the copyrights, but we can make that happen. A flat buyout is $1000 per image.**
Him: *I can hear him mentally choking.* But, if they get big, you could always sell the pics on eBay or something, and use them yourself.

Oh boy, I've heard that SO many times.

It is quite laughable though. What's really funny is the mental "choke" when that one press release photo(s) try to go on the CD for mass sale; the price per print.

;)

Rik

[St Marc]

Here's the deal(s) I offered him. These were pretty much numbers out of my head. I am willing to listen to criticism. :)

1) Promo shoot. Get the band together in studio. I provide lighting, take pictures, and provide edited single and group shots. You can use pics for promotional purposes - you can put them on website, put them on print press kits. You cannot sell anything with the pictures on it. (T-shirts, posters, album covers) although you can give them away. Total cost: $200.

2) Commercial Use Rights: Same as #1, but you also have commercial use rights - you can put the pictures on things and sell them. Cost: $200 for shoot and edits, plus Use Rights Fee. Use Rights Fee is flat $50/image, plus 2.5% royalty (suggested retail) on any cumulative print run of 5,000+ pieces. Promotional use incurs no additional fee.

3) Buyout: Same as #1 but you own copyrights on pics, I have no further rights. I take pictures, show you samples, you select images to buy. Price: $1000/image flat. (Fee for shoot is $100 flat even if you buy no images, that covers my costs.)

In my opinion, the shoot fee is rather low, but I am available irregularly so I offer a fairly low price to reflect the fact that you can't just call me up and say, "I want to shoot tomorrow at three." The royalty on CUR may be higher than the norm, especially in the music industry. I set it based on my experience in other licensing fields. It also reflects the fact that I think the URF is sort of low.

Comments? Questions? Witty Remarks?

M